When I was leaving church after Mikes Serman Saturday night relating to our finances I heard one woman say to the lady she was walking about with something about not needing another serman telling her to give more. I heard another lady saying something about more talk about money. I remembered when my son went to basic training he had some money problems. He had 5 creditors at that time and he has been sending me money to get these things paid off. 2 of his creditors were those places that give you cash advances to your payday. I went in to pay Jakes back and I was behind a older man with a VFW Jacket who was slightly bent over. The lady behind the counter knew him by name. It was the 5th of the month and she said now you get your next check on the 4th of next month right? He said yes. I was shocked. By how the conversation went I gathered he came in and paid the previous months every month and then borrowed for the next. He was borrowing $400.00. I felt so bad for him. While i was waiting a couple came in behind me and the man was whispering to the woman, I'll borrow $300.00 now and if we need any more money by the end of the month you can borrow against your name, the woman said well get a little extra so I can play the lottery. I was in shock by that one.
This weekend I was putting plastic up in my windows, I have 4 windows that really leak alot and I too can't afford new windows just yet. I was reminded of a co-worker who a couple years ago told me her heating bill was sky high and they had a bathroom window that really leaked air badly. I offered some plastic I had left over and she told me that they were not that kind of people. I was shocked at the time. Last year they lost her house to foreclosure. The family lives with her parents who are in their late 80's in a 3 bedroom ranch, along with their 3 dogs, a bird and 2 teenagers. They have since bought 2 laptops, a new car and taken a trip to Europe where one nights room in paris was $850.00. They make good money but just never could handle it. I think the budget isn't about giving more money to the church, I understand people get all worked up when we're talking about money but I think, at any time, but especially these it's really got to be a priority. I read in the Parade Magazine this weekend that our country now owes Japan $585.9 billion, China $541 billion, United kingdom $307.4 billion OPEC nations 179.8 billion and Caribbean banking centers $147.7 billion. What was interesting about that is the OPEC nations included Algeria, angela, ecuador, indonesia, iran, iraq, Kuwait, libya, etc. It was interesting to me to see Iran and Iraq in there. That's just a sad kind of irony to me that we are putting so much money into Iraq and they are basically one of our creditors. Argh! How does that happen. I'm trying to use up the food in my freezer. Last week I pulled out some hamburger and I made manwich. Since I live alone, everything I make last forever. After the 5th day of manwiches I couldn't take it anymore and the poor dog got the rest. Yesterday Krogers had chicken on sale, buy one get one free. So I bought these 7 lb roasters and mad I'm going to be eating chicken for a long long long time but at least I have food and for that I am truly thankful.

Shrimp scampi, shrimp bar-b-Q, shrimp ke-babs, shrimp sandwich.....
I knew people would hear that in the message. It was really about how to be better stewards, than giving. He just wants us to remain faithful about giving, and not give in to fear, but to be better managers of what we have. Maybe it's indicative of where are hearts are that we go out mad, or sad thinking someone wants more of our wealth. Puts you in mind of the rich young ruler. Not preaching...I've done the same thing.
I have been thinking...is it possible to create some kind of co-operative within the Methodist church, or ideally, local church's of our city, to provide health insurance to the underinsured, or non-insured? I don't know what the legalities are, we wouldn't be a business, but just to form some kind of group, that could provide lower cost because of numbers, like business's do. Does anyone out there know if that can be done? If we would all focus on taking care of the city we are in, I wonder what would happen. I find the under insured in my own community and help fund that, stock the food pantry for my community, help fund low to no cost childcare through my church.
If the church's would work together, and create a large community food pantry, insurance fund, furniture warehouse, childcare center....church's working together is probably the bigger dream. Lisa

You can't give people and get them out of debt. They'll jump back in. You can only educate them and help them change their pattern of destruction. If they won't change, you can't stop them by throwing more money at them.

I used to be a contractor for FmHA and my job was to work with people and try to get a budget they could live with. I was their last hope. If they didn't stick to the plans I came up with, we filed against them and took their property. I could always come up with a plan that would get them on their feet but very few of them would follow the plan. It was discouraging. For the most part they don't really want to change. They just don't get it or they don't care.

It felt good when someone did follow the plan but it didn't happen often. Throwing money at the majority of them in the expectation that you were helping them was just a lie to yourself and a waste of funds. Better to close them down now than to throw away all that money and close them down anyway.

I'm all for a hand-up but not a hand-out. It's a fine line sometimes.

As for the insurance, groups aren't enough to cut it. Over 1/2 the businesses today can't offer insurance either. It's just gotten so expensive that just being in a group doesn't make it affordable even in a business. Our health insurance program in this country is broken and it will take more than a group rating to fix it.

Thanks Jerry for sharing your experience. I realize there would have to be strict screening in helping in such a way. I agree, throwing money at the problem doesn't fix it. And they may be few but there are people who are genuinely falling through the cracks. I can imagine the satisfaction in seeing that one person take your advice and find a way out. That's what I want to try and find. I just think of the church in Acts. There are always tares...God will sort them out. Those who just take advantage of a system do not prosper. You saw that. They remain in bondage, living hand to mouth. I don't want to be afraid to give though because of those people. I'm sure some of my money has wound up in hands that do not appreciate it. I'm just being obedient. If they can't be won over by love, God will allow things to get tougher and get their attention that way if necessary, eh?
I actually had someone at worship complain there wasn't enough snacks. A particular one they liked. They are from another church, but come, eat snacks, and sleep through the sermon. I like this person, and I'm glad they come. But it shows the motivation. If they are hungry, I'm glad for them to have the food, and take the leftovers home. But it's that "me" focus that has gotten us all in the place we are in. God help us.

We'll Jerry I can relate to your story about people not wanting to change their ways, it's like the people borrowing money from that cash advance place and the lady wanted extra to buy lottery tickets. I was shocked by that. Right now there is a several month wait if anyone signs up for the Navy or Air Force until you actually go in. It's a side effect of the economy. I'm told when the economy is bad the enlistments are up for those two branches of the military anyway.
You know Lisa what I was wondering is if there is somewhere some of the people who are in financial problems can get free training for a new job. Like typing, or mechanics or maintenance or powerpoint and excel. Alot of them don't have the money or because of families can't attend school. Instead of a job fair to have sort of Saturday work shops to help teach some people some new skills. I don't know I'm just throwing it out there.
Something really sad happened to me tonight, I talked to Jake tonight, he asked for prayer because if he passes all the rest of his test he will fast tracked to graduate Dec 15th, if not he has to stay until January. While he was talking I told him there was a story on the news about the army being worried about the mental health of their soldiers and how they have chaplains looking out and keeping watch over the soldiers for signs of stress. He said he was told the month before he got to where he is now, a chaplain who had just returned from Iraq committed suicide. Any suicide to me is so horrible and in my naivity I think if only they knew Christ. It's kind of a reminder that even when you do beleive at the wrong moment and wrong time, things still can seem hopeless. It's just difficult to keep your eyes on Christ all the time when surrounded by so much pain I think. I just thought that was so terribly sad.

Google Samaritan. It's a Health Insurance Group formed by Christians who don't cover certain things like abortion and other non-essentials or illnesses relating to direct things such as smoking, etc. so it helps keep the cost down for everyone wanting affordable health insurance. They pray for one another but it is also a legitimate Insurance Company formed with Christian principles. They work on prevention. That's what we'll do if my husband loses his job soon.