I was just thinking about the Spitzer situation. My husband, Ken, and I were talking about it last night. My family just laughed at me a few months back when I was working late at Walmart and through some of the changes there, people have been shortchanged a decent wage and I'm just blown away by how often upper management plays dirty when it comes to giving those who work hard and are obviously good at their job the pay and benefits they should have. I was sitting in the lunch room at work that day looking around at all the signs that boasted about all the good deeds they were doing and how much they were raising for this or that charity. I thought, "how different the reality was of the place compared to how they portray themselves". I began to wonder how those who chose to do the right thing were fairing in such an environment. Several co-workers and I were lamenting some of the unnecessary changes Wal-Mart has made and how it has affected the quality of life for so many. I couldn't help saying, "While they're out there with yachts full of whores, here we are suffering under bad leadership". I repeated this to my family when I got home and they look at each other and roll their eyes and laugh because of the way I phrase things. The only thing about Spitzer is that someone wanted him out of power because it's going on rampantly everywhere and they look out for one another and they don't nark each other out. This story is a visible manifestation of what's going on everywhere. The struggles in my own soul have nothing to do with the fact that this man and others like him continue year after year after year to DO not struggle but DO those things and they are only sorry they were caught not that they even really think they're wrong. I don't stand in judgement at all but I am so very very sad for the situation. What's even more disturbing is that some people want prostitution legalized. It's already in the phone book covering so many pages it's unbelievable. Yeah...they call it by other names like entertainment or escorts but we know what it is.
I'm sure Spitzer's wife was just shopping her life away and raising the kids and ignoring everything. How could she really reach him? If she even wanted to. Who knows. I'm sure the signs were there. There are always signs and especially when God gives signs. Anyway....I think it's not just the fact that Spitzer's sin came to light but I think his situation itself is a sign of what is going on in the country as a whole. Pastor Brown from Bethel AOG once said that sometimes judgement is mercy because it prevents that situation from going where it would have had it not been intervened upon. God's love for Spitzer and his family is great and I am going to pray for them for sure. We all struggle with broken desires but the Spitzer situation isn't the same as understanding what we're capable of or struggling with our flesh.
This was wholesale giving over to the sinful nature with no thought at all concerning it. Even though it was different, we still don't judge that the person is doomed. We only know that he needs Christ and hope that is where he is headed. I just really needed to express my thoughts on this subject and this was the perfect place. MC

"This was wholesale giving over to the sinful nature with no thought at all concerning it."

Isn't that a judgement? At the very least, it seems to me it's only an opinion. We don't know what was going on in Spritzers heart. Maybe he felt guilty for hurting his wife and family but addicted to the sex. Someone on Mike's blog asked where does telling the truth turn into judging, and I think that's something we should work hard to discern. And it lies with that sort of statement. You can say what he did is wrong. You can't judge the intent of his heart. God alone knows that. Having said that...maybe I'm hairsplitting. I'm just not comfortable with making a statement like that...his behavior was wholesale giving over to sin with no thought at all. We simply do not know that. And to me, it seems to 'demonize' Spritzer. It isolates him some how as worse than the average sinner. Just my two cents. L

Hmmmm well I have to say I sadly agree this kind of sin is probably alot more prevalent than I want to know. Tt may very well be rampant but to say this man is only sorry he got caught is a bit much. I do not know his heart and I do not presume to. I think sexual addiction must be as real as any other addiction. We can judge the act but what's in this man's heart is between him and God. The rest of us can only make speculation.

Regarding his wife, well I divorced my husband for other reasons than infidelity, it wasn't until after my divorce was final that I found out he was unfaithful as well. I can't tell you how much that hurt. I didn't see that coming at all. I had a complete trust and if I ever marry again I hope I have that kind of trust again. I can't fathom a marriage without it. Enough said on that. I have forgiven him and let that go but when I bring it up after 17 years the pain starts to hurt once again.

Kind David missed seeing his sin with Bathsheeba (sp?) until God sent Nathan to show him his guilt. Was it deliberate? It sure seemed so but was his eyes open to the sin, from what I read it deoesn't seem like he at least faced it until Nathan confronted him. And despite his mess up, and it was a big one, he was still a man after Gods own heart. Thank goodness God doesn't know us by our sins but rather through Jesus Christ he sees our heart. I guess that was my 2 cents and a half.

Hey, How ya doin'?

Isn't it odd how I can say 4 paragraphs of material with possibly 75% of it being accurate factually, but the part that's pointed out is the sentence that was partly judgemental?

Maybe Spitzer did suffer guilt over what was going on..who really knows. And maybe his wife didn't have a clue. I just think it's interesting that we don't hear from him until he knows it's going public. Similar story with Clinton. These guys just don't roll over on each other that easily. People had to have specifically had it in for them to go out of there way to make it public. And maybe it was just God making it public. Who knows.
Being addicted to sex doesn't mean you have to spend $4300 bucks a pop on it. What he was into wasn't just between him and God either because he was in a very public office with great responsibility and he is with that office answerable to those he leads in terms of resources. King David got called on the Bathsheba thing mostly I think (my opinion) because he had her husband murdered. He already had I think it was 10 wives and a few concubines at that time so he was already heading somewhere he didn't want to go since God never was for more than one wife.

I'm not saying my judgement is mercy. I was saying God's judgement is mercy because it halts a situation that to God is headed somewhere not so good. If you guys are disturbed by me saying that a man that for all we know has no relationship with God and should fully be expected to not be too concerned about his spiritual condition and more than likely wasn't (I'm not saying he had no awareness full or partial awareness)(I am not shocked or surprised or somehow expecting him to be in relationship with God and I'm not judging him on that), then I'm not sure anything I say would be acceptable.
Making an accessment of a situation is not the same as condemning a person. If I say, "man that woman really just doesn't care", then I may be making an incorrect judgement (accessment) of the situation (I could have said,"man that woman just doesn't SEEM to care and that may be more accurate because it allows room for my incomplete or inaccurate accessment of the situation). Saying any of that does not mean I'm saying, "man that woman really just doesn't care and there is no hope for her and I'm so glad I'm going to heaven and she is really going to hate going to hell".
That's condemnation (judgement only God can make and as we know, God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world but to save the world as they believe the message of salvation).

So, in my accessment of a situation, I should be more careful not to express myself in a condemning manner with little or no facts. I thought discernment gave you insight into a situation. I would say that concerning insight into situations that not only do they have yachts full of whores but they are knee deep in orgies. Pardon the brutal honesty. I am not condemning, I'm just saying, "It's really bad and it's not just the world, it's the liberal churches as well and that is breaking my heart". Will you pray with me? I'm not sure if I am supposed to be writing this kind of stuff here because new people might be disturbed and disallusioned. Your thoughts?

Well..actually, I didn't agree with much of any of it. I just chose to make a comment on the statement that bothered me the most out of all of them. L

My first thought is I didn't really think your first post was 75% accurate. I don't know much about Wal-mart but when you say the upper management is out their with their yachts full of whores, I have to wonder. I have read where the man who runs Wal-mart ( I think it's the founders son) is notoriously frugal. And he still drives something like a 92 honda to and from work. And I'm not sure I would expect a business that buys cheap goods from China to pay alot to their workers. It would just seem to be an oxymoron of sorts. I once had a boss who everyone told me when I first started to work for her that I would hate her. She was very strict and sure enough on Christmas eve we would be the only ones working late and she was stickler for making sure you put in your full 8 hours and she didn't give out praise to anyone but I loved her. You just had to understand that she wasn't trying to be mean, those were her convictions. Once I understood her, I couldn't help but respect her immensely. It was never about what people thought about her that mattered, she beleived in doing what she felt was right. Many times in that office of 100 it was she and I working and she laid me off as well. Not because I didn't work hard but at the time cuts had to be made and although we became friends she had to lay me off. She wasn't very well liked by many but I liked her alot.
Regarding Mr. Spitzer You know alot of addicts have to hit bottom and/or be exposed before they will desire change. I'm not trying to defend him but I have no reason to attack him either. Having a high price call girl may have seemed safer to him than picking up someone on the street. Who knows. That reasoning of the cost can be said of any addict. An alcoholic doesn't have to spend alot of money on high priced brandy, the drug addict doesn't have to spend alot of money on pure meth amphetemines, a gambler doesn't have to play high stakes poker, but they do. When it gets bad enough however, if they are an addict, they will take anything,even cough syrup, but reasoning with an addict doesn't work. It doesn't matter what makes sense because reason was thrown out the window a long long time ago for most addicts. I don't even know if he really is an addict or not, but somehow he gave in to temptation that's for sure. "There but for the grace of God go I". I saw on the news a man who ran a similar escort service. He said he was surprised that the governor had to pay anything at all. He said if he had a high profile person like that come to him, he would have set them up for nothing. I found that equally disturbing. Finally, of course I'll pray with you. I need all the prayer I can get and while were at it, lets pray for forgiveness and healing and change in Mr Spitzers life as well. Hang in there.

Hey folks,
How ya doin'? I want to thank you for your input. It gave me some things to think about today while living this thing we call life. Part of my problem is that I tend to write at times when I am emotionally enrolled in a story or topic and I am somewhat judgemental. I do appreciate the comments and insights though.

I have personal reasons for being as emotional on this topic as I am. I apologize for being unnecessarily abrupt and harsh. I hope that you have a wonderful week. I have to go downtown with Mom tomorrow to the Social Security office to take care of some details. Mom doesn't seem like she really wants to go places anymore.
Suzanned I am sorry for what happened in your marriage. Thank you for sharing that part of yourself. It has to be difficult.
See Ya, Michaiah


ps. The last member of the Walton family (the son) died in a plane crash a couple of years back. It's all new management. I'm not saying all of them are doing those things. I was mostly speaking of governing officals. Because nothing is said at the store level, I'm not sure how much of what's going on concerning the reality of the work environment at Walmart (store level) is known at the upper echalon because when they come in things are hidden. Anyway...that's a whole discussion on it's own.
I'm glad you had an employer that you respected, trusted and loved. I can't say that I've seen too much of that. I know that I have worked very hard at work. Some do. Some don't. Anyway....I was really just looking at the whole Spitzer story and you did say that we hit bottom with our addictions and I do understand that. It took me many months to quit smoking, drugging and drinking. I will say that I totally relied on Jesus and most of it didn't go away right away. It seemed that it was that sanctification process. (Not that I feel smoking is the worse thing I just thought it was costly and disgusting).I've seen people so stingy, they wouldn't give you the time of day, but when it came to something they were into especially an addiction, they'd pay plenty.
I am sad sometimes but as Lisa help me see, I have to pray then and I've been doing that more. It helps. It's good to know what you think of my writing. I won't write so much from now on. Sometimes, you just aren't on the same wavelength with people and I think that's part of the When Christians Disagree thing..and it's ok. I hope things are well for you. I started a blog at Christianblogger.com. I think the rapport will be pretty good and it will give you folks a break from me. Sometimes there are people who just don't seem to connect. It's not a bad thing. There are people who understand me and I understand them and it's good but even then sometimes we don't always agree and that's ok.
Talk to ya soon! Michaiah

Thinking about this string of posts and I hope you know Michaiah that even though we may not always agree it's really a good thing. Here I can disagree with you and you are still my sister in christ. Agree or not. Having said that, thinking about the Governor exposed of having a fling with an escort, you have to wonder where was his team? Maybe no one knew but if someone even suspected, I would hope they would have had the courage to be his Nathan. There is a certain politician (not from my state) who rides on one of the planes I support sometimes. Before he gets on the plane one of his aides will call ahead and they make sure all alcohol is taken off the plane. Even the flight attendants "kits". He has a team that knows his vulnerability and is looking out for him. He seems like a pretty good guy from what I hear, (which given his reputation may surprise some people) and his falling to his weakness would take all his good works out of memory and his alcoholism could very well be what he would be remembered for the most. We all need those kind of people surrounding us, that aren't just yes men, who will let us know when they feel we're off kelter, and who we can trust with our vulnerabilities and in doing so they will watch out for us and I don't mean by helping us to cover up our sins but to help us stay strong against the temptation. I'm not saying the Governor did or did not have those people around him, but I am saying he sure needed them and if he had them he needed to be open to listening to them. One more 1/2 cent worth of thought.

To me this is what the forum is about. It's the place to "think" through things with different views and input. Iron sharpens iron kind of thing. I've learned a lot from the people on here, and the most from those who completely disagreed with me. So your welcome to disagree with me right back Michaiah. But we're all here to share our thoughts, feelings, knowledge if we got any, and please God, everyone share their wisdom. We're not arguing with you. We assume if you post, your desiring dialogue. It seems your taking things personally. If you find a place to post and everyone agrees and "gets" you, I'm not sure what the benefit is. I've connected with some things you wrote, and I don't with others. I'm sure everyone on here feels the same about me. Don't let it bother you. Just digest it, keep what's good, grow, and throw out the rest. These are good people on here Michaiah. Stay with us awhile and get to know our hearts. Then maybe you won't feel so judged when others disagree with your writing. L

Hey,
Don't think for one minute that I could forget GUM.
Ken really liked Mike's sermon he downloaded to his mp3 on this series. I will always love Ginghamsburg. I guess you could say that as far as churches go, it's my first love. You never get over those. My Mother was at a very vulnerable time in her life and she was taken advantage of by someone. He is the father I've never known. Not even a name but I think he was someone high up because my Mother seemed to live in fear for much of my life. The poverty wasn't describeable. For being in America, we had a time of it. Anyway, you all have a great night. I'm going to wrap things up around here and get everyone to bed. It's a new day tomorrow and I want to meet it with the joy of the Lord. Love, Michaiah